Jeff McMahon 0:00
biohacking in its essence is the best way to naturally make your body perform at its best. So there’s three things your body needs to do needs to sleep, it needs to eat, and it needs to drink. So how do you do those three things as best as you can, on a daily basis to aka live longer have less chances of disease injuries, you recover a lot faster, and your brain just works better. So you’re more clear minded, you have better memory, you function on daily, day to day basis, a lot better on all those things. But at the very base of its core, it is just about how to live healthier and increase your longevity. That’s it.

John Campbell 0:41
Hello, and welcome to another edition of the inspired inactive podcast. This is the podcast, where we look to motivate and inspire us to be more connected and active in the outdoors, really enjoying what’s available and sharing it with others. My name is John Campbell. I’m a coach, the founder of my directive and the father of four very active children. Each week, we’ll look at hints and tips and some advice interviews, and offer different apps and downloads just to help you be engaged and motivated. Let’s get into today’s discussion. Okay, welcome back to the inspired and active podcast. It’s great to be here. And today, I really would like to welcome a colleague of mine who I’ve got great respect for, in his knowledge and as an as just general understanding of this whole area of fitness and coaching. So I really like to welcome Jeff McMahon to the podcast. Jeff is based in the States. And Jeff, it’s great to have you here.

Unknown Speaker 1:39
Thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be on your show and talk with your audience about all the knowledge that we’re going to go through today.

John Campbell 1:47
But yeah, that’s brilliant. Maybe you can just tell people about your background, what you do, what excites you? Were you were you working?

Unknown Speaker 1:55
Yeah, I’m in the states over and over in Cincinnati, and I own a gym here. And I do virtual training with clients all over the world. And then a health and fitness coach for about 15 years now. It’s been a huge passion of mine forever. I’m also big into martial arts and outdoor stuff, I was an Eagle Scout. So I love being camping, fishing, being outside, hiking through mountains, all that kind of stuff and enjoying nature. So my biggest passions right now is just teaching that to my kids and taking them outside wearing me going to Colorado to the Rocky Mountains this summer going down fishing in Texas this spring. So just being out and about to show what the world has to offer for them. And then also keeping my clients all over the world as healthy as I can make them.

John Campbell 2:39
Yeah. And that’s great to hear. Because Yeah, we’re in smart, inactive. We’re really keen on the outdoors. And that’s one of the big areas that we really would like to see young people really connect with more is outdoors. So I’d imagine in the states that there’s so vast, you’ve got so much choice and their doors. So it’s good to hear you’re there. So do you really find is really popular outdoor exercise and outdoor activities within your kind of community in groups.

Unknown Speaker 3:08
Yeah, the United States is funny because on the outside the coast like the West Coast or east coast, people are very active. In the middle of the United States. It’s very flats, and people go for sports, but they don’t really go for outdoor stuff because there’s not like mountains to go climb or things like that. So United States is always finicky like that, by the end, the East Coast or west coast is very active in the middle, you have to get closer to the mountains to be more on that part. But that’s why I let me in Ohio, take my kids those spices so they can be more active and see all those fun things.

John Campbell 3:41
But today, there was one area that we’re particularly interested in discussing and is really on this this idea of or the term biohacking. And what I wanted to do really in this in this short podcast was really just bring into introduction to bio hacking. Because I know with with my friends and my children and my colleagues, bio hacking is something they hear about, but they don’t know that much about. And I know Jeff, that you’ve got quite a lot of experience in terms of your personal training in fitness about how you can use biohacking to agree it’ll be great just to do to kind of dig into some of this and just in the short time discussing it. And maybe maybe you could just think about it. Maybe you could explain what what is biohacking. I think that’d be a good place to start.

Unknown Speaker 4:30
All right. biohacking in its essence is the best way to naturally make your body perform at its best. So there’s three things your body needs to do needs to sleep, needs to eat, and it needs to drink. So how do you do those three things as best as you can, on a daily basis to aka live longer have less chances of disease injuries, you recover a lot faster, and your brain just works better. So you’re more clear minded, you have better memory you And David day to day basis a lot better on all those things but at the very base of its core it is just about how to live healthier and increase your longevity. That’s it and you find

John Campbell 5:11
when you’re coaching and with your personal and your personal coaching world of biohacking is popular is it increasing in popularity? How are people using biohacking?

Unknown Speaker 5:25
People are loving, they get scared because they think biohacking is like performance enhancing drugs and like all that kind of stuff. And it is absolutely nothing along those lines. It’s just my clients all love it because you know me educating them, they now know how to sleep better to wake up feeling more refreshed, they know how to jumpstart their day to not be foggy brained or you know, unclear headed that kind of thing and just understand what to do to optimise their longevity because in essence, the reason why they’re with me is because they want to be healthy. The healthier you are, the longer you in essence live and can do more things. You know, I have 83 year olds that play golf three times a week workout with me three times a week, and also go do fun things with their kids are at three years old. And that’s a great thing because their friends are having hip replacements their friends are being home, their friends can’t do as much as they can because they don’t take care of themselves versus my people do so it’s all about what you want in your life and biohacking just aids that in the most natural and easy way possible.

John Campbell 6:29
Yeah, no, it’s it was good. You brought up that that question about performance enhancing because this question that certainly I get asked quite a lot is, is it legal? Because you people will think biohacking is all about performance enhancing you. You read all about Lance Armstrong and his kind of history of cycling and drugs and and you hear about different kind of weightlifters bulking up with with steroids. And and I just like to assure and you’ve just mentioned as well that we’re not talking about anything that’s illegal. This is natural use of everything that’s around about us.

Unknown Speaker 7:05
Correct? Yeah. Natural. Educating. That’s the biggest thing.

John Campbell 7:09
Yeah, no, no, absolutely not. Certainly on what age do you think if you because because I coach children from 12, up to up to 18. And and we talk about biohacking. But what Wait, what do you see with a new world about the right time and the right age maybe for people to to start doing or being introduced to by hacking, we would the benefits start

Unknown Speaker 7:35
while the benefits start at any age. But the problem is do the like children understand it, probably not, the parent would just you know, let’s say put lemon in their water to jumpstart their metabolism, they would just do that the kids would drink the lemon water, but they wouldn’t realise why they’re doing it, the parent would just know that it’s good for them. And then as the kids get older, they can explain these things. That way they can pass these this knowledge on to their children and children and children but people really start to I mean biohacking as a term really came into play. So like five to eight years ago, it hasn’t been around forever. So it’s not like a long term thing that people have been doing for a long time. But the for like children and stuff like I have my kids, you know, have more berries in the morning with their breakfast, just because the antioxidants help prevent cancer, but they don’t know that they just know that they’re eating something healthy. You know, setting their alarm, so they’re sleeping for seven and a half or nine hours at night is a term to keep their circadian rhythm going. But they’re not going to know that it’s just I know that. So when they’re going to bed and waking up, they’re sleeping, they’re waking up their earliest amount of sleep. So that way, they aren’t groggy, and aren’t hitting the snooze button 17 different times. So it’s more or less educating the parents who start with their kids, and they can start at any age. I mean, anything we talked about today has nothing to do with age. It’s just when you kids start having interest with more or less be post school that you know, they want to be better and be healthier and you know, care about themselves on you know, on a future basis.

John Campbell 9:11
Yeah, one of the edges I find is a wee bit of a concern, which you can kind of agree with whatever is when they start going to the gym, at age 16. Certainly in the UK, they have more access to go into the gym on their own. And they start doing their own weight training. And they don’t have the education. They don’t have the knowledge. Yes, they’ve been shown how to lift weights because you have to be to be a member of the gym. But they’ve got this idea that they need to bulk up now. They’re at the age that the natural freedom is building the muscle sets are building. So one of the concerns I have is they all think Well, I’ve got to start protein shakes, I’ve got to start taking some some kind of supplement just to help muscle build. And I think that’s the education we’re talking about here just to see that. There’s any When when children get to that age of 1617, and they’re trying to think they need to do something out of the norm,

Unknown Speaker 10:09
yes, because he might either be for sports or a lot of the other times it’s for vanity for attracting the opposite sex. So whether it’s a girl trying to get skinny to attract a guy or a guy trying to get bulk up and get stronger to attract a girl, like, for here, especially in the States, like it’s either going to be for sports, like American football, basketball, things like that for their coaches, tell them hey, we need you to be stronger, faster, jump higher, whatever, and then they’ll take their creatine they’ll take their protein shakes, they’ll take fat burners or whatever else they think that they’re supposed to be taking but reality you know, that’s a little bit of biohacking, but it’s not really that’s just supplementation. biohacking for us, especially we’re gonna do today is going to be just how to optimally live a healthy and clean life that will let you live longer. And that kind of stuff.

John Campbell 11:03
That’s a great separation. You’ve just mentioned there Jeff supplementation, that’s a great term. And so you you and your experience, definitely are seeing that supplementation IE taking extra fat burning kind of I’ll call them drugs because because I am totally against all that as I’m sure you’re in terms of artificially trying to change your body shape and and supplementation as of course the biohacking and biohacking is natural and and i think be great to for my audience that’s really understand the difference between natural biohacking and supplementation. And and really we encourage biohacking in the right form, education, but supplementation we are not encouraging and do not suggest that young people take that take that forward that has to be done in a very expert fashion, if at all.

Unknown Speaker 11:53
Yeah, no, I

John Campbell 11:54
know that. Yeah. So that that’s great. So I think we started looking at what the benefits are of biohacking. You mentioned a few so maybe we can start zeroing in on a few things that in your experience you’ve mentioned lemon and water for example, that’s such an easy thing to do. And maybe Can you can you do what why would you do that? Quite Why Why? Why would I put lemon in my 14 year olds water What difference would that make.

Unknown Speaker 12:21
So as your body sleeps, let’s say it’s eight hours just for round number, that’s eight hours of it being dehydrated, not getting any food or water into it. So the first thing when you wake up, you need to hydrate your body with 12 to 16 ounces of water to an analyst that isn’t litres, but 12 to 16 ounces of water and to boost that water to help out your body. You put a slice of lime or lemon I do lemon just for flavour but some people like lime is the citrus fruits in there to help your liver process the toxins better. So when you wake up, your body needs to do a number one or not. The point of it is because it’s built up all that toxin throughout the night that it needs to flush it out of your body. And so the more you can hydrate it, especially with the lemon booster liver that’s going to push it out so you’re getting rid of the bad stuff out of your body allowing the good nutrients from whatever healthy breakfast you’re going to be doing that day coming in. So lemon is all about your liver it’s all about boosting your metabolism and it’s all about helping push out the toxins the bacteria the viruses all that stuff out of your body so that way you can start your day in a free fresh clean start

John Campbell 13:35
yeah see that’s such a simple and when you explain it to explain it like that it’s it’s so sensible why wouldn’t you do it? And I think that’s that’s the thing about biohacking why why wouldn’t you you put lemon in your in your water and your your kids water hit so and you also mentioned earlier on about berries for breakfast. Breakfast is an interesting one for me because I know if my kids are in the states you got all these cereals as well but sugary cereals are just prevalent a breakfast where I see the pile of cereal and my son needs sugary cereal and you mentioned berries and lemon water is there in your view I can have by a hacker breakfast what is berries the same as lemon it just gives you that start of the day. What are the benefits of trying to get that fruit indoors? I know I know we’re moving on to nutrition a wee bit here but it’s more just

Unknown Speaker 14:27
fine. Yeah, the biggest thing I mean the lemon is definitely going to be for your liver so you wouldn’t eat a whole lemon you put in your water to help enhance that water. The best fruits to really have would be for biohacking purposes apples because apples have fibre. So again, they help that excretory system flush out through your body get rid of the toxins, berries, whether it’s blueberries, strawberries, raspberries, something along those lines is optimal just because berries have any oxidants so my family’s had cancer run through it. I don’t know audience has but of cancer is something of concern. berries are a good thing and you want to keep berries to get in America quarter cup to a half a cup. So many people eat like a whole huge bag of it. You don’t want to have the whole entire bag you you only need a little bit amounts, like a quarter cup to half a cup. And in doing so to keep a great morning so like if you’re going to do a smoothie be a good thing to have a smoothie versus cereal. If you’re going to be doing not cereal. I don’t know if you guys like oatmeal or rolled oats or even yoghurt, like Greek yoghurts with some berries and blank areas are great options for a breakfast part. But again, yeah, the berries are going to be or apples I eat a heck of a nap. I have an apple every single day. And the reason why is because the fibre the more the more your body is regular, where you take an unhealthy stuff and excrete out the bad stuff, the more it does that on a consistent basis, the healthier your gut is and your gut your stomach is where your immune system is. So if you want to be you know, not have a common cold all the time not get the flu, not get Coronavirus, or whatever else is out there as best as you possibly can. You want to keep that immune system strong. And so keeping your flow going of healthy food in bad stuff out is the best options for that.

John Campbell 16:25
Yeah, I know that I think gut health is quite a topical thing at the moment, which is a whole podcast in itself. But no. So so that’s great. So we’ve we, we’ve looked at one very simple thing that people can do, what else would you have in there? You’ve mentioned hydration, is that something right through the day, we should be because everybody says how many litres of water is too much water,

Unknown Speaker 16:50
etc. litres as a gallon, so you want to do about at least half of that. So 1.9 litres a day of water if you can, if you can get a little bit more than that and you’re in the two to two and a half litres. That’s going to be ideal. because your body is going to crave water all throughout the day. Half the time when you’re hungry. You’re just dehydrated. And your body’s like I’ll eat those Oreo cookies. I just need some sort of water to be coming in and tries to get it from anything. So most of hunger comes from just not being hydrated enough. So

John Campbell 17:22
yeah, so we’re talking about water and how much water you think they should you should drink and you are mentioning that 1.9 litres. That sounds a lot.

Unknown Speaker 17:31
It’s a lot because most people are in it doesn’t all have to be water like I know. I mean tea has water in it. So if you’re having tea in the morning, that’s going to count as your liquids towards the day. But your body craves water throughout the day. So I in an ideal world, if you’re somewhere between 1.9 to 2.5 litres, or whether it’s tea water, I really wouldn’t recommend soda, soft drinks or anything like that. But even juice is kind of dehydrated. But if you can get water or teas in at that amount, then then you’re fine, then then you’re optimal again, at your optimal level. But yeah, hydration definitely is a good thing. It helps keep away hunger, because a lot of half the time that you’re hungry, your body says dehydrated is trying to get water out of whatever is around you. Whether it’s Twinkies or potato chips or food so as you can get water while doing it, then you’re then you’re better off.

John Campbell 18:30
Yeah, no that Yep, no, it’s really good. And I know personally I should drink more water. I think we all kind of realise that we’re not drinking enough and in many situations, but so moving on about other. What other kind of simple introductory bio hacks would you think Yeah, we’ve talked about breathing before is just generally

Unknown Speaker 18:52
breathing as a great thing. For your oxidation levels, your your cells need to carry oxygen to your muscles to your brain to your organs to function properly. And so many of us are stressed that we never really taken deep breaths so that when you take in shortened breaths, you’re increasing your cortisol hormone versus your stress hormone. And so if you’re always stressed out, you’re always in that fight or flight response. your adrenal glands, which controls your adrenaline is always pumping because your body’s like, Okay, I gotta handle this stressful situation. I mean, you think primal days that’s Sabre toothed tigers, and that’s a stressful situation. But nowadays, it’s bosses hammering down your throat to get things done. Kids need to be going one place or another place or another place like you’re being pulled in 1000 directions. How do you maintain stress levels is a big part as to how healthy you’re going to be. So one thing you can do in the morning, as you can take three minutes and just do a simple breathing technique. That’s called the 142 method. So you would inhale for three seconds You hold your breath for 12 seconds, and then you exhale for six. So the one for two is the multiplication. So if you inhale for three seconds, you multiply that by four, so you hold for 12, then you multiply that three by two, so you get six. So if you want to hold your breath for five seconds, or inhale for five seconds, hold for 20, exhale for 10, inhale for seven seconds, hold for 28, exhale for four.

John Campbell 20:24
Do that, and then how often should you,

Unknown Speaker 20:26
you do that 10 times in the morning. So it takes about three minutes to do or if there’s any stressful situation, that’s, you know, you’re going to go into a big presentation, you want to be relaxed to go do that. If you’re, you know, anytime you want to reduce stress, and eliminates that overwhelming feeling, just do the one for to breathe. And the easiest number is inhale for three, hold for 12, exhale for six. And you do that 10 times. And the whole time you’re doing it, you focus on the counting, and you focus on the breathing, anything you hear about meditation, and yoga, and all this kind of stuff. All that is is glorified breathing, that’s all that they’re doing. And that’s all that they’re teaching you. So the way you can understand it and not have to worry about mother earth beneath you and feel the grass under you. It’s how do you control your breathing. And the simplest way with all the studies that are out there is inhale, hold, exhale, that 10 times that’ll that’ll complete a whole cycle, your body will calm down that adrenal glands, those cortisol levels will decrease. And remember, with increased cortisol and increased adrenaline, your metabolism slowed down, you have three times higher chance of gaining weight, three times higher chance of a heart attack, and three times higher chance of getting diabetes. So breathing is important. And it’s just a very simple way to either start your day or handle like I said, a big presentation or whatever else you have going on for that part.

John Campbell 21:56
Yeah, no. Well, that’s a good reason to do it. Then from what you explained that Yeah, absolutely. So so that’s great. We’ve talked about hydration, we’ve talked about breathing, we briefly talked about sleeping,

Unknown Speaker 22:08
so let’s go into sleeping a little bit. By sleeping, two parts need to know about sleeping First, if you’re a nap person, then you want to either sleep for 30 minutes, or an hour and a half, too many people fall into them and pay a 45 minute nap or an hour nap. They wake up even more tired than they did going into the nap because you’re messing up your whole sleep cycle. So if you only sleep for up to 30 minutes, that’s like your quick power nap before your brain gets into the deeper REM sleeps, so you’re gonna feel okay and refreshed as a little jumpstart, or if you are really dog tired, then plan out to have that hour and a half. So that way you can wake up feeling refreshed, your body sleeps an hour and a half intervals. And so ideally, in a perfect world, you want to sleep for seven and a half hours or nine hours. The reason why is because your body burns the most fat while you sleep. Again, because of breathing. Your body recovers itself the most while you sleep, and the body builds up and flushes out toxins while you’re sleeping. So when you wake up, it’s saying, Hey, I’m ready to go get this stuff out of me. So sleep is super important for longevity super important for your immune system and super important for recovering. So that way you can wake up the next day and give it your best on a day to day basis. So if you’re looking to lose weight or gain weight, either one you want to be sleeping for at least seven and a half or nine hours is that your optimal times for total recovery. So many people say they’re so busy, they can’t make it that much. Well then at least get six hours of sleep because they don’t maintain where you are.

John Campbell 23:43
And then how about a younger person because the the view is teenagers need more sleep.

Unknown Speaker 23:50
Or they would go for the nine hours because your body and I know and remember you’re like I remember I’m six foot three. So I don’t know what that is in centimetres, but it’s pretty tall. Yeah. And I remember my knees would be killing me when I wake up in the middle of night because my body is growing. And so the thing Yeah, so if like your child is growing, they’re probably going to want to shoot for that nine hours of sleep to to be optimal and waking up without hitting that snooze alarm 17 different times and so many of us have in the past. So just understanding that setting your alarm is going to bed at a consistent time. helps with that. And so biohacking in itself. It’s just understanding that knowledge of how your circadian rhythm is so you can wake up feeling refreshed and optimal. A little pro tip if you want to be taking it to the next level. Since your brain does all your recovery while you’re sleeping, you can optimise your brain by taking a little tablespoon of natural honey before bed. The sugar and the honey plus the fat will give your brain energy so while it’s repairing itself, you’ll be sleeping more efficiently. So little pro tip simple little quote unquote biohack to do, but to have honey right before bed is a good thing to let your brain perform properly while you’re asleep.

John Campbell 25:09
Okay, now that’s a good one. Yeah, again, very easy to do. But

Unknown Speaker 25:15
like we said before, like this is the essence of biohacking has nothing to do with being crazy and drugs, anything that’s like, Okay, wow, I didn’t know honey, which is natural helps my brain sleep. I’m going to do that. So I can wake up feeling amazing. The next day, I can fight off allergies, I can fight off colds and viruses and everything else all by doing little simple, non painful things.

John Campbell 25:37
Yeah, no, no, no, that’s great. And I think this is exactly what we wanted to do in the introduction to biohacking and it’d be great to add a future podcast to dig into some of these and and look at real options. But in certainly in this in this podcast, we’re looking at the introduction, is there anything that you’d be recommending, from a movement point of view, we mentioned rebounders rebounds or trampolines and, and things like that even even skipping ropes. I’m a great fan of skipping to get the whole body kind of moving. Is there anything in terms of movement and rebounding or trampoline, and you would recommend as a kind of bIack for the whole body?

Unknown Speaker 26:17
Yes, on a muscular level, sleeping is very hard on our bodies. Again, we’re in there for anywhere from six to eight hours in one bed position, whatever. Like if you lay down in your back, your sheets are pushing your feet down. What does that do? Well, that tightens up your calves that tightens up the backside of your hamstrings, and then allows muscle imbalances to happen. If you sleep on your side, then your knee is crossed over your other knee. Therefore, your spine is now rotated open up your lower back vertebrae where people have a lot of lower back pain, you sleep on your stomach, then your spine is art. So now you’re compressing that spine causing even more issues on your spine and your neck. So movement is definitely definitely going to be an amazing thing in the morning. You can do anywhere from five to eight minutes. It doesn’t have to be anything intense. But a rebounder, which is like a mini trampoline that you’re bouncing up and down on is going to be one of the best ways to be moving in the morning. Why? Because it forces your body to control as it’s falling down on trampoline and then lift off as it’s coming up that up and down motion will then push more circulation through your body to stabilise control and adapt. So you’re moving like you said everything. Same with jump rope because that’s again, that’s up and down. But if you don’t like those things, you have bad knees, you have a bad back, simple stretching in the morning of just find on Google. As you know, this is an audio podcast, your hamstrings, your calves and your hip flexors. Those three things that you can stretch every single day are going to be amazing. So every time you sit your hip flexors get tight, that’s in the front part of your groyne area. So if you can stretch that out and find the best ways to do so for you, that where we do so much back pain for you, it’s crazy, your calves are always going to cause knee issues. So if you can stretch out those calves and keep them loose, you’ll have a lot less knee pain because it’s not pulling down on that joint. And the hamstrings is just mostly tight. Like if you can’t bend over and touch your toes. That’s a very improper flexibility test that anyone at any age should be able to do. So to not have proper range of motion increases your chances of injuries, you know exponentially so you know, being flexible being moving are very important for biohacking.

John Campbell 28:37
Yeah, no, brilliant. No, I think that’s great. And I think we’ve covered a lot in this podcast so just going to look into to wrap this up. There’s one aspect I just wanted to bring out because I love where their doors is. I’ve I’ve turned it the nature pill before it’s time outside is in my view, a bio hack. Have you Do you see that? I think you’ve mentioned it before and discussions about just time outside.

Unknown Speaker 29:03
Yes. time outside in nature does two things your body has electricity. So to handle the electricity in your body, you want to be grounded. If there’s any chance you could walk barefoot on grass that will ground your body to neutralise and keep your electricity and rhythm. Electricity keeps your heartbeat so it’s kind of important that you want to do that. And then secondly, the sun in itself gives you vitamin D and why is vitamin D so important? Well vitamin D increases your cells energy. So that way you feel more optimised and energetic all day long. No one wants to be rundown. No one wants to always tell the kids I don’t have energy to play with you. I don’t want it you know kids have one child, they have one chance of memories to be having with you. If you’re always tired, always busy and not able to do anything with them. What kind of childhood or example Are you really giving to them. So if you could get 30 to 45 minutes outside preferably with some sunshine because, but just outside in general, you will feel bad or your body will thank you for being grounded, but also increasing vitamin D, so your cell productivity and energy levels will be that much higher.

John Campbell 30:16
And that’s a great way to finish because that’s so important in our view is to get out and just use the natural, the natural vitamin D. And the point about the grass and grounding is really great. So just wanted to thank you, Jeff for for spending the time that was really interesting. And it would be great to get you back on to go into these, some of these and more in more detail. But if anyone has any questions or anything, where can they reach out to you? Where can they find you?

Unknown Speaker 30:45
All of my handles are my name Jeff D. McMahon, so whether it’s instagram, facebook, or whatever, and my website is Jeff d mcmahon.com. And you can find me D is for Donald sorry, boys, I forget. So Jeff D as in Donald mcmahon.com. You can find me reach out I love answering questions. I love helping people and making sure that you know, they leave a world answer. So so many people are so afraid to ask questions and where they always leave questioning and don’t know what’s going to go on. So if I can help in any way. That’s what I would like to do.

John Campbell 31:21
No, brilliant. No, thanks for that. And once again, thanks for your time in the podcast. And I’m sure we’ll have you on and we’ll speak to you another time. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thanks for listening again to this by done active podcast. Please connect with us on Instagram inspired and active on Facebook, and leave a review for the podcast. It does help us to get more audience and we look forward to coming to you each fortnight with just more interesting topics. We’ve got some great interviews lined up and I really do hope you will get out and about and enjoy this time. Thanks a lot for listening

Transcribed by https://otter.ai